Get ready to dive deep into the fabric of society as we explore the future of education on Redefining Society Podcast with your host, Marco Ciappelli. Today, we welcome Jeffrey Scheuer to discuss critical thinking, liberal arts, and the true meaning of citizenship.
Guest: Jeffrey Scheuer, Writer/Independent Scholar
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-scheuer-82443697/
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Welcome to this thought-provoking episode of the Redefining Society Podcast with your host, Marco Ciappelli. Prepare to dive deep into a compelling conversation that investigates the very bedrock of society — education. Is there something fundamentally amiss with how we're imparting knowledge to the next generation? Are we teaching them how to learn and critically think about what they're learning? Listen in as we explore these burning questions and more.
In this episode, Marco engages in a riveting conversation with Jeffrey Scheuer, the author of "Inside the Liberal Arts: Critical Thinking and Citizenship." A book that ambitiously endeavors to merge the realms of liberal arts, critical thinking, and citizenship into a comprehensive whole in just under 200 pages. Jeffrey takes on the challenge of explicating the elusive nature of liberal arts, critical thinking, and their inherent connections, a task rarely undertaken in earnest.
As you listen, contemplate Marco's ethos: he's not here to provide definitive answers but to encourage his audience to ponder different perspectives and cultivate their own thoughts. In a world where the term 'liberal' has become so politically charged, Jeffrey offers clarity by tracing its roots back to ancient Rome. 'Liberal arts,' he posits, originally meant 'the skills of a free citizen of the Roman Republic,' and miraculously, still carries that connotation. It's about citizenship, about the transactions between the individual and the community, and this conversation delves into what it truly means to be a good citizen.
Today, in the age of information overload and evolving technological landscapes, are the education and media industries keeping pace? Are they fostering informed, enlightened citizens or merely consumers of information? What's the role of critical thinking in navigating the ceaseless waves of data and stimuli we encounter daily?
Join us as we discuss these fascinating topics and more. Let's redefine society together. If this conversation makes you think, Marco has done his job. Share your thoughts, spread the conversation, and make sure to subscribe to the Redefining Society Podcast for more insightful discussions. Remember, we're here not just to consume information, but to critically think, engage, and shape the world around us. Let's start the journey.
About the Book
Inside the Liberal Arts: Critical Thinking and Citizenship answers three highly topical and related questions:
- What are the liberal arts?
- What is critical thinking?
- How are they connected?
At a time when liberal education is on the defensive vis à vis the STEM disciplines, and its future is called into question, the terms ‘liberal arts’ and ‘critical thinking’ are often used in tandem but seldom explained. Inside the Liberal Arts provides an overview of the core ideas that enable students to become higher-level thinkers. Avoiding the excesses of much academic prose (narrowness of focus, turgidity, obscure and unnecessary terminology, the pretention of absolute authority, and over-sourcing), Inside the Liberal Arts answers the three questions above, for students, educators, and the wider community of aspiring critical thinkers. It is at once a deep exploration of the concept of the liberal arts, and an accessible, thought-provoking guide to critical inquiry for students, prospective students, graduate students, former students, adult learners, parents, and anyone interested in liberal learning.
Defenders of the liberal arts perennially mention the importance of liberal learning to critical thinking and to citizenship. But there is no work that systematically explores the meaning of those ideas and how the liberal arts, critical thinking, and citizenship interconnect. As Mark Twain purportedly said of the weather: everyone complains about it, but nobody does anything about it.
Inside the Liberal Arts: Critical Thinking and Citizenship does something about it.
Examining the meaning of the term “liberal arts” and its roots in Greek and Roman thought, it goes on to explain how critical thinking unifies the modern liberal arts curriculum. As such, it is both an exploration of the nature of liberal learning and, integral to that, an accessible introduction to higher-level critical thinking for students, educators, and general readers.
While Inside the Liberal Arts presents multiple themes and concepts, an overarching idea is that citizenship is essentially triangular, embracing civic, economic, and cultural dimensions that interrelate, and that the value of liberal education lies in preparing students for all three forms of citizenship.
Inside the Liberal Arts distills four literatures: studies of the liberal arts; general books on thinking for lay readers; works on critical thinking; and philosophy. Its twin purposes are inseparable: to show how liberal learning promotes robust triangular citizenship, and to explain the concepts and ways of thinking that inform it. As a study of the role of thought in higher education, Inside the Liberal Arts addresses both general and academic readers in a way that will be both timely and enduring.
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Resources
Inside the Liberal Arts: Critical Thinking and Citizenship (Book): https://jeffreyscheuer.com/insidetheliberalarts
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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Marco Ciappelli01:51
And here we are welcome to redefining society podcast with me Marco Ciappelli. On itspmagazine.com. And, you know, in this, in this show of mine, I am on another show as well. But this is really my, my baby where I really talk about stuff that I know about, although I never know enough, and they care about quite a bit often is the intersection of Technology, and Society. And what does it mean all this technology in our life, everyday life and for humanity. So we get philosophical quite a bit. And today I have a feeling we're gonna get. We're gonna get philosophical, I assume, because we're going to talk about a book that is about liberal arts. And I don't know a lot of people nowadays when they hear that they kind of cringe or they get excited. I don't really know why maybe our guests can explain that. But I feel like it doesn't have the meaning you used to have before. And there is an entire book about this, and about the fact that liberal arts are critical to for our thinking and critical thinking and our being a good citizen of some country where we'll leave awfully a democracy. So enough with me chatting, this is this is about this book, and that we are talking with the answer, which is Jeff. Sure. I hope I didn't chop the last name and I did a good job, he will let us know. Jeff, welcome to the show.
Jeffrey Scheuer03:29
Thank you, Marco. It's great to be with you.
Marco Ciappelli03:33
Very excited, very excited. So I hope I did a decent job in introducing what the topic is going to be. Let you introduce yourself. So
Jeffrey Scheuer03:43
thank you, thank you. The book is called inside the liberal arts critical thinking and citizenship. So it tries to square the circle of those things, critical thinking liberal arts, citizenship. That's an ambitious project, which I try to accomplish in under 200 pages. So the readers will decide if I accomplish it. It started with the idea that people talk about the liberal arts being conducive to critical thinking. But they never showed the goods. They never explained how that works. They never defined the terms liberal arts and critical thinking. So I took a few years to figure that out. And more than a few actually. But I defined the terms I explained how they how they interconnect. I explained how imprecise some of the connections are and how solid there are another levels. It's it was a big job and I and I'm pleased with how it came out and I hope I hope readers will be too it's it's taking on the entire or liberal arts universe and also providing a kind of a template for students or Junior Scholars, graduate students, students, people who want to recapture their liberal arts education is anyone who's considers themselves say a lifelong learner, anyone in any of those categories? It's for them. It's for anyone who's interested in thinking in general. And there are many such people believe it or not even our in our very anti intellectual American society.
Marco Ciappelli05:31
You know, Jeff, every time I finish a podcast, I like to say if this made you think, I did a good did a decent job. So I don't want to give answers to people. I just want to help people to give perspectives and goals and then think on their own. They need Yeah, you can't force not them to think so as they say, you can bring the you can bring the horse to the pound, but you can't force. Let me let me ask you this, just so that I'm assuming everybody knows what liberal arts are. But at the same time, they have become the word liberal, such a political Yes, concept that I think it's kind of not clear anymore. So how would you define what is Libra?
Jeffrey Scheuer06:23
Okay. I would begin by saying it's an unfortunate term for something that doesn't have another convenient term for it. We could call it critical inquiry. But the term liberal arts has stubbornly persisted over the centuries and even the millennia it started in your home country in ancient classical Rome, where the term artists liver Alesse, in Latin meant the skills not the arts, but the skills of a free citizen of the Roman Republic. So it didn't really mean anything connected with arts as we know it, or with liberal as we know it in the ideological sense of liberal it meant skills for citizenship. And the miracle is, it still means that it still means that Oh, though, that the the idea of the liberal arts has gone through a long historical trajectory, it has expanded in many places. And I would also suggest, it really starts not to take anything away from classical Rome. It really starts in ancient Greece with the first attempts at philosophy and rationality, by Plato, Aristotle and others. They devise the most basic questions, What is nature? What is value? What is thinking, what is philosophy? What are ideas? What is the mind well of that? What is causality for example, they put these ideas on the table, and they've evolved. Since then, many of them are still on the table. Some of them are very contestable, still. But over the course of history, the liberal arts started with the trivium and the quadrivium, the grammar, logic and rhetoric, and then it included music, astronomy, and so on. And now, because it's the nature of philosophy, to ask general questions, and it has spawned other questions that have created their own disciplines, whether it's economics, or sociology, or psychology or linguistics, or many, many other liberal arts fields, not every field, but many of them come straight out of philosophy, because philosophy has questions that he could not answer without specific lines of empirical research. So we still have the liberal arts today. And it's still ultimately about citizenship, I would argue only about citizenship, but only once you've defined what you mean by that.
Marco Ciappelli09:22
Well, how about we do that? Okay. What is a good citizen or what makes a non citizen?
Jeffrey Scheuer09:31
Okay, committing a crime is not a good way to be a citizen. Let's start that I could have guessed. Yes, yeah. But there are many ways and different levels on which one can be a good citizen. I defined divide citizen into three main categories. There's a civic category, which is how we function as when we vote when we serve on jury duty on juries. When we do anything to change, or, or keep the same the society we live in? Well, citizenship is transactions between the individual and the community, in which there's a two way transaction, you give something, you get something back, you obey the laws, you get the benefits of the laws and so on of other people obeying the laws,
Marco Ciappelli10:22
and so known as the social contract,
Jeffrey Scheuer10:25
yes, the social contract. So there's the Civic side of it, which is the one that's most obvious to people. There's also an economic side, everything we do, as producers, as consumers, that affects ourselves and others, our own livelihood, and the prosperity of society. I call that economic citizenship. And then finally, there's cultural citizenship, which is all of the various conversations we have about our culture, about meaning and value in our culture, and what we like and what we stand for, and whom we affiliate with, and all of that, that, that creates conversations, and that most of that or much of that is in the arts. But I would argue that sports is a locus or for that to religion is a locus for that to all kinds of things that we voluntarily do our hobbies. Anything that takes us outside outside of the home, involves interactions with other people's people, is a kind of cultural citizenship.
Marco Ciappelli11:38
Well, it all makes sense to me, especially when you live in a democracy where you do need to be active, because if you're not, as if you don't use that civic rights that you have, you may end up losing it now. or later. colanders. But if we look back, as you mentioned, to, you know, even the meaning and the reason why philosopher were very involved in the political life of the antique democracies in Greece, and so forth. So, I guess that when you decide to write a book like this is because you see the need for it. Right? What's your position then on? I'm assuming that you see, the lack of this, I saw, okay.
Jeffrey Scheuer12:29
Well, this always, we can always need more critical thinking, there's been a lot of this, there's been a lot of work on it, we didn't need another book necessarily on critical thinking, per se, there, many of them, good ones. And similarly, there are a lot of very good books on the liberal arts, a lot of good books on citizenship, but none that sentence sort of synoptic Lee put them together and create a single horizon for the whole. And that's what I was trying to do answering the question, how does? How do liberal arts promote critical thinking? And how do they together promote citizenship? So I saw the need for it, I also was ready for something new after writing two books on media and politics. And at the time, I started, this goes back almost 10 years, but the media landscape was becoming very confusing, and I was too old to understand it. So I decided I would, I would sort of return to my roots, which are in philosophy, I'm always interested in media as well. But my academic roots are in philosophy. And and, and this question just grabbed me. And, and became a consuming interest for many years. Yeah, it's
Marco Ciappelli13:55
a complicated conversation, I can kind of think about that when social media happening was a big change, the internet definitely was a big change. And I remember my days studying political science and information we talked about, before the internet became commercial, you know, you need to read three newspaper every day, at least one from the left one from the middle, one from go right and make up your own mind, which is very much critical thinking and I and now we're just bombarded by who knows there is no filters and that may be a conversation for another time. But maybe, of course, they are connected. I mean, I can totally see the connection between those books. But the role of education in these is is a is the school system that didn't keep up with these changes what went wrong?
Jeffrey Scheuer14:54
That's almost too big a question for me to answer Marco.
Marco Ciappelli14:59
Thanks. You take one piece of it,
Jeffrey Scheuer15:02
one piece of it, I think the ultimate age Aims of Education and the aims of media haven't changed. It's to inform and enlighten people and to give them context, and understanding so they can function as citizens. And in fact, I think the connections between media and education are much stronger than most people realize. Media is adult education, really. And, and education is preparing people to be adult, consumers, adults, citizens, and so on. So they're joined at the hip really. And the ultimate aims are the same. It's the, it's the means by which we achieve them that have changed with the internet and social media. It's how we get informed, it's the dangers we face, and trying to get informed of fake news and deep fakes. And, you know, all of that, which I don't particularly enjoy wading into, but I recognize it's a very, very big problem. And again, we're about to get much bigger with AI.
Marco Ciappelli16:15
Yeah, you want to go there? Not really. Okay. You want to be maybe another conversation we can have. But there's definitely, that's what he's coming. But let's stay to what it is. Right? So
Jeffrey Scheuer16:34
you asked, I'm ask why education has been declining? Yeah, in America. And I think it's a, it's a broad cultural phenomenon that started with electronic media have started with radio and television, really, and people reading less, and talking to each other less, that's a key part of it. You know, when we talk to each other on the internet, or through social media, it's a different kind of face to face interaction, it's not genuinely face to face. And I think we suffer unconsciously, from too much interaction on that level, and not enough on the human level, where we really talk and really listen and, and something really comes out of it. So much, as you know, of social media is, is just us cowering under a wave of data and information and stimuli coming at us, that don't really improve us. So So
Marco Ciappelli17:38
when when I think about critical thinking the word critical, right, it's no good have a negative connotation, we think about, you know, a food critic or restaurant or not at all, a movie, but he's not he's actually constructive use.
Jeffrey Scheuer17:54
Food and movie critics have a constructive role to eat includes being negative, and it includes being positive. So no critical thinking is really, excuse me, is really rational thinking there isn't much difference, if any defending it's rational thinking about not how to be a hunter gatherer or achieve something specific in the world. But it's a it's about ideas, and it's about how we relate to each other, things like that. It's so it's following rules and reasons, basically.
Marco Ciappelli18:32
So I keep thinking of what you said in terms of online social media relationship, you know, we spent the past three years so the pandemic, working from home learning from home, we are recording right now, on the platform that we are there. So but you say that it has a different level of relationship of communication, interaction, let's say, am I getting that right? That on your opinion, is more superficial? The kind of
Jeffrey Scheuer19:09
thing so that better? It's not something I've been studying, necessarily, but it's that my overall sense is that when we're in a room with people, it live, more learning takes place and more teaching takes place than when we're looking at a screen. Except for this show.
Marco Ciappelli19:33
Except for the people in the room right now. Right? We're in the virtual room. So are we too late? I mean, is there a way it's really democracy, critical thinking, right? We're
Jeffrey Scheuer19:45
not too late. We're not too late in the sense that we have no choice. We can't go back. We have to have a democracy under these conditions. That may mean regulating AI. And I think that's probably A very important thing to do. It may mean limiting certain ways in which we use tick tock or whatever, without the sort of political grandstanding that the governor of Montana has been doing, just to make him look anti Chinese, it's serious, useful regulation, without over regulation, to keep keep things on there, on the rails, and, and to keep our discourse from, from getting too crazy. And to protect us from from the worst possible, you know, predations of electronic media of AI, like fake, fake, fake politician voices, you know, to use against your opponent to make it sound like they're saying something which they're not things like that, we have to somehow get that under control, or it's hopeless for democracy.
Marco Ciappelli21:09
It's a the worst version of Orwell 1984, when you can really iterate, you know, the, the new, the past, the present and the future.
Jeffrey Scheuer21:23
Well, I use the example of Orwell to describe the value of the liberal arts because you do not read Orwell, in a business school classes are in a computer science class, which is not to say that we don't need STEM learning to it's very important, but we need to supplement it with the liberal arts and with books like 1984, which show us what evils human nature is capable of, and what we should be trying to make happen and prevent from happening. It's like,
Marco Ciappelli21:57
this brings me this brings me to, to your view, and I am quite critical about the the education system, I think it's a little obsolete in general. I mean, it's almost like technology is about practicality. And, and stem, as you mentioned. Yeah. But that's probably would have been happening and in the, in the educational system. And I believe that's true in almost every country in the world, as far as I know. And I'm not an expert, but I can.
Jeffrey Scheuer22:37
We're also not getting good enough teachers, because we're not as a society willing to pay them what they're worth. And I
Marco Ciappelli22:43
would love to go there. Because my last comment before, give it back to you is that with the job today, do I talk to a lot of people that are futurist technologists, but talk to a lot of philosophers, because there has never been, on my opinion, at least since when I'm alive. Such a strong relationship between technology, understanding who we are, and the fact that we talk about ethics, way more than we've ever talked, I think in the the common conversation or the news, like we're doing now. I mean, ethics for AI is almost like a way to learn ourselves, learn about who we are. So, but at the same time, as I just said, we're not paying enough the teacher to promote these liberal thinking, whatever that means. So well, how can we fix that,
Jeffrey Scheuer23:41
let's say small d democratic thinking, I'll give you one example. We got to teach more civics in K 12. I mean, in high school, quite apart from the value of the liberal arts may lead to a an education for citizenship, every American has to learn how their government works, that should that should not even be debatable. And, and that means that there should be a civic section section on the essay t test and the AC t test and so on, so that schools are forced to teach it. That's one way to start. It's such a big systemic problem, Marco, you can't only address it from one entry point. But that's one I would say and another is to encourage STEM students to to have more to take more liberal arts courses. And then there's a whole big societal problem of how we got to the point where we're divided not so much on left right political lines but on educated versus less educated line And, and the right has convinced its base that their enemy, they're the elites that are that are oppressing them are the educated people in this country as opposed to the truly powerful people like corporations and major organizations, they've they've conned their their followers into believing that and it's really tragic because if as long as as soon as you start demonizing education, democracy isn't true trouble
Marco Ciappelli25:41
to that I mean if you control if you keep people I don't want to go back to your mansion, you know the Roman Empire a few times but it makes me think about Parliament's or senses where you give them bread and circus. They're not going to put their mouth into the politics of the city. Now that's an extreme I don't even know how ultimately true that is. But let's assume it is. It's kind of what we're facing nowadays, no entertainment, commercial capitalism, and, and exactly what is out there making the rules or what
Jeffrey Scheuer26:20
this is. Yes, and this isn't new. Neil Postman wrote about this in the 1980s and 90s, he wrote a great book called amusing ourselves to death, and a number of another of other precious books that I think preceded the internet, but identified all of these problems that interfere with learning and interfere with cohesion, cohesion, citizenship, communities, communities, you know, language, using language is a communal form of community. Rationality is a form of community, it's a greeting. It's a kind of language for thinking that enables us to agree about certain things. I say I'm doing this because of that. I say, I'm acting this way because of that rule, or that idea or that guideline. It's a way of coming together. It's not a way of separating us, as our values sometimes do separate us and have to separate us, but it's a common ground. And we're losing some of that in the in the era of electronic communication. And postman was one of the first gerrymander was another when he wrote for arguments against television, for arguments for the elimination of television. Not a serious title, but a very serious book. And so I'm not the first to be on that bandwagon.
Marco Ciappelli28:01
No, I can see a lot of the and shared a lot of your thoughts, maybe I'm more positive in my thinking with, with technology, because it's my, you know, my job and looking ahead, but also because I need to stay a lot of positive things. When I balance dystopia and utopia, but you know, is there you know, is a possibility, and I'm certainly not an anti tech person. No, no, I understand that. But your race technology
Jeffrey Scheuer 28:33
may end up saving us from the predations of technology, actually, when it comes to, for example, global warming. I don't think we have the political will to make the sacrifices it will require it but I think the technology may get us out of it. If we're lucky, if we're lucky. But I always go back to something Henry David Thoreau said in the 19th century said, our machines are but he say Perfect, perfect means to imperfect ends. So we still have to argue about our ends and which ends we're going to pursue. He said improved means to an unimproved ends, if I may correct. We still have to improve our ends. And that's what democratic conversations are about. But technology will always improve our means whether we like it or not. And every invention we can possibly achieve is going to be used in some way for good or for ill.
Marco Ciappelli29:38
Well, it's tool in the end. That's that's the point. Listen, as we wrap up this conversation, which I could have with you, sitting with a coffee probably for hours because I have many thinking a lot of thinking of the things are discussing. I wouldn't like to wrap it up with the two things one You mentioned at the beginning, who's this book for, because I think, as a writer, you always have your audience there. And you kind of mentioned that I'd like to go a little bit more in that, because I know that part of it is students and the new generation, the upcoming, the new the next future generation, some advices may be on how to think more critically, or why they should embrace liberal arts. So kind of like a manifesto.
Jeffrey Scheuer30:34
Well, if you can't sell citizenship and democratic citizenship, you shouldn't be trying to sell it. Because it's hopeless. I, I wrote the book, to resolve the questions in my mind and to provide a template for people who are looking, either going into the liberal arts are involved in the liberal arts, as students or graduate students or as educators, Dean's anybody, anybody making decisions about higher education, and try to figure out these questions of critical thinking, and citizenship and and what the liberal arts are. I think I succeed, frankly, in, in inside the liberal arts, at least on my own terms, and I certainly welcome any any arguments or feedback from from your viewers, listeners, readers. But that's the general idea. It's to give people sort of a handbook on critical thinking, that's also a model of what the liberal arts are all about and why.
Marco Ciappelli31:49
Well, that sounds again, you say took you two years, probably on top of this two years, even more than your entire life thinking about it.
Jeffrey Scheuer31:57
I want to make a quick plug for one of my favorite authors whom you will Norberto bobbio is one of my heroes, one of my great heroes as an Italian writer on politics and political theorists.
Marco Ciappelli32:11
Very good. Very good. Thank you for for doing that for the for the country. Again, I think it's an important book, I have read the summary and few excerpt but it's definitely something that I am interested in. And I think it should be honestly read by by anyone. So again, this is inside the liberal arts, critical thinking and citizenship, we will have links to connect with you wherever you want to share for people to connect with you to your website to where the book can be found. And again, as you said, and I said at the beginning to my goal and the sounds, also your goal is to make people think so if you want to think a little bit you want to read have an open mind. Forget your suit shares. Very well said when it was said, Jeff, I want to thank you again, for people watching the video. Glad you stick around for people maybe driving in the car, walking the dogs and just listen to the audiobook. I hope you got something out of it. And feel free to comment, share, subscribe, get the word going. We need to think everybody a little bit more. Just thank you very much.
Jeffrey Scheuer33:28
Thank you, Marco Great to be with you.
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