Redefining Society Podcast

Psychology, Dieting, Nutrition and Generative AI. How technology could help knowing ourselves and staying on track | A conversation with Dr. Sera Lavelle 
| Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli

Episode Summary

Explore the dynamic interplay of psychology, diet, nutrition, and generative AI in our quest for self-awareness and well-being in this insightful conversation with Dr. Sera Lavelle.

Episode Notes

Guest: Sera Lavelle, Cofounder / CEO at Bea Better Eating & NY Health Hypnosis & Integrative Therapy [@healthhypnosis]

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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast

On ITSPmagazine |

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Episode Introduction

Welcome to a thought-provoking episode of the Redefining Society Podcast on ITSP Magazine, where we look into the ways that technology, Generative AI in particular, cna support psychology professional, to take nutritions issues in our modern society. I'm your host, Marco Ciappelli, and today, we're exploring a topic that resonates with many of us - the role of technology in understanding and managing our dietary habits and psychological well-being.

In an era where information is abundant, yet often overwhelming, technology has the potential to play a pivotal role in guiding us through the complexities of nutrition and psychological health. We're witnessing an intriguing era where wearables remind us to stand up, move, and even breathe mindfully. But how does this all integrate with our human essence, our daily struggles, and our quest for a healthier self?

Joining us in this exploration is Dr. Sera Lavelle, a clinical psychologist who's at the forefront of integrating technology into psychological practice, particularly in the realms of diet and nutrition. Dr. Lavelle, owner of New York Health Hypnosis & Integrative Therapy, has an intriguing stance on the intersection of psychology, technology, and nutrition. She's not just a practitioner but an innovator, merging AI and mindfulness to aid those grappling with the emotional aspects of eating.

As we discuss the potential of technology in enhancing our self-awareness and decision-making, Dr. Lavelle shares her insights on the evolution of therapy in the age of AI. The conversation navigates the delicate balance of embracing technological advancements while acknowledging the irreplaceable value of human connection and empathy in therapy.

Moreover, we'll touch upon the societal and ethical implications of integrating AI into psychological practice, the nuances between AI and human interaction, and the future of psychological care in an increasingly digital world.

Prepare to be enlightened, challenged, and inspired as we embark on this journey at the intersection of technology, psychology, and nutrition.





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Episode Transcription

Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.


[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. This is Marco Ciappelli. Welcome to another episode of Redefining Society podcast on ITSP Magazine. Uh, we're on this podcast, which is one of the two that I have. We talk about the intersection of society and technology, which pretty much means everything in our life nowadays that goes from the cars we drive, the food we eat, the Communication we do, the TV we watch, everything is on the internet now. 

So everything is connected and. There's a lot of things that are criticized about our society, um, because of this interconnectedness and of course, generative AI, there's people striking, but I like to look at the, the good things that technology can bring to us. And today we're going to talk about how technology may intersect and then maybe help people to, I don't know, have a better nutrition, maybe understand more nutrition. 

There's more information out there. And I don't know, we have wearables. We, we're reminded when we need to stand up, exercise and, uh, It's a great conversation to have. And to do that, of course, I'm not qualified. I have a guest that if you're watching the video, you can already see is Dr. Sarah Lavelle. And if you're listening, here she is. 

Uh, Sarah, welcome to the show.  

[00:01:28] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Thank you so much for having me. Uh, you happen to pick my favorite topic exam for people realize in the field of psychology, we're, we're among the. among the many people who are afraid that we're going to be replaced. Um, and I'm not one of those people who's afraid we're going to be replaced. 

I think there's ways to, um, glean the benefits of both in person and virtual and, um, make it more accessible and just know the appropriate and Most advantageous time to do both.  

[00:01:59] Marco Ciappelli: That's the perfect approach, right? Yeah. Let's not be too alarmistic. Let's not be too optimistic. Let's just think about it on how we can really integrate it into our being human. 

That's, that's the message that I try to put out there not just following because the blinking light and the funny sound that technology can make, right? So, um, a little bit about yourself and uh, why Are we having this conversation? So that we give a little teaser to our,  

[00:02:30] Dr. Sera Lavelle: well, uh, I've had an interesting journey into getting into technology. 

You know, I'm a clinical psychologist and, you know, people often don't think, you know, psychologists and technology goes hand in hand, but so first of all, I'm the owner of, um, New York health hypnosis and integrative therapy. Um, we're a clean, um, a team of clinical psychologists who integrate mindfulness and hypnosis into psychotherapy. 

Um, in that we work a lot with eating disorders and not just eating disorders. Sometimes it's not disordered, but it's people struggling with the emotional aspects. Um, eating now in this, it, um, really inspired me to create something combining AI and meditation. Um, that's more accessible for people that they can get help when they're struggling to make a decision with food in the moment. 

And the whole idea is that, well, there's actually some negatives about being a real human. Um, a, what you'll find with things like eating is the more alliance you have with your therapist, the less like, the less like you are to tell them honestly. Because you're kind of ashamed of what you're doing. And you don't want to tell a person face to face. 

The other thing is I'm not available all the time. So in the moment when my patients are struggling with food and they're like, help, what do I do? The idea of having something right in front of them that they can ask for help, um, can be really helpful in between sessions. And what we're finding is it doesn't take people away from therapy. 

If anything, they get to practice talking to something and practice vulnerability all week. And they're actually more ready for their therapy appointment because they've had all these realizations during the week. And they're also more mindful of their action. So I have the two things going on. It's my practice in New York, but then I'm soon to be launching my app. 

Um, be a better eating. That's, you know, the AI kind of meets headspace for emotional eating.  

[00:04:27] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. It's funny that you say headspace, because as you were talking all about, You know, uh, your, your idea of using an app so that it's always on your phone. It's kind of like present, but it's also at least yet not judgmental. 

Maybe it will be.  

[00:04:46] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Yeah, but that's the thing. Like, no matter how much you could tell your patients, it's not, they're not going to judge you. It's still the presence of a real person and you're going to be afraid that they would.  

[00:04:57] Marco Ciappelli: Right, right. So I was connected with that, you know, you get the reminder on your wearable, like take a minute to concentrate about your breathing, take another minute to stand up, take another minute to do this. 

And then there are like apps that will actually get you into maybe a good routine. And, and it's kind of, Rewiring maybe you to do things even just counting the steps that you do every day and it becomes a game Maybe there is a gamification for that. I don't know that there is a lot of different approach. 

So Let's take it A little bit. And I, you know, a bird eye view from the top. So when, when, uh, technology started to get into your practice, let's say, or in, in psychology in general, or sociology, whatever it is, and You said you don't, you're not afraid of technology, but you can see a way that you can integrate it. 

But I guess you can also see how many may have the fear of it. So I'd like to pick your brain, even if you're the psychologist, I'm not, on that feeling of how technology is seen, accepted, or refused in people lives to help in many things.  

[00:06:17] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Yeah, well, I mean, we have a long history of, you know, robots, uh, eliminating jobs, right? 

And I do see some negatives in, you know, I think there are plenty of people out there who don't have, um, the degree and the ethics courses and things that just call to think that they could say, Oh, I could just call myself a therapy app without realizing like the danger that presents, right? Um, just saying, Hey, this thing couldn't cure anxiety where it's like they don't realize actually, you know, uh, giving a diagnosis, providing therapy, like, you know, it's a, it's a huge responsibility. 

Um, so I think that the fear of it is, you know, being replaced. I think there's also fear of it, you know, as so many movies came out, this idea that, you know, the, the computers will rise up against us. Um, you know, and I mean, I don't know, I can't say that that's not going to happen, but I do have an interesting take on it. 

Um, people want to make AI more human like. I actually think it's going to get dangerous when we try to give it emotions. Because if you really think about it, you know, uh, CHAT GPT isn't jealous of, um, Google coming out with its own AI, right? It's like, it doesn't have, it doesn't have jealousy, it doesn't have envy, it doesn't have greed, it doesn't... 

You know, it's just going to work on a program, right? However, human beings, we are jealous of our next door neighbor's house. We are envious of these different things. We do cause war, but I actually think it has to do with more human emotion. Um, whereas it was something kind of nice about, you know, uh, AI just wants to do its job,  

[00:08:02] Marco Ciappelli: right? 

Yeah, and people need to actually make a clear difference between AI, generative AI, and general AI, which is the one that people fear in the, in the movie of taking over.  

[00:08:17] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Yeah, yeah, the movie of taking over.  

[00:08:20] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, but you made a really good point because it's many time is not clearly explained unless you're in the, in the business or the field of that. 

And, um, you touch on something and then we'll dig a little bit more into the health and personalized nutrition, but anthropomorphizing, that's a funny word to say for an Italian in English. But so given this, I mean, we need, we have this need as human to just give it. A human shape to a robot that doesn't have to, right? 

A human voice instead of a metallic voice. Everything needs to be human. More and more human like. Yeah, and I, I can see that as a good and a bad thing in a way because like, why don't we just distinguish? Why not dealing with a cube? But yeah, they have done research where if you, if you show that you're harming a robot that looks like a cube, people don't have that empathy that they will have when it looks like a human. 

So do you think that psychologists, the future may be just the person that look like a robot that looks like you, or can we talk to it on?  

[00:09:31] Dr. Sera Lavelle: So, okay. So I've had a lot of thoughts about this as well. So. Okay, so, like I was saying, it makes people, uh, you know, the more rapport you have with your patient, the less likely they're going to tell you honestly about their eating. 

However, isn't that also a good thing? So, like, um, I do a lot of relational psychology, and the idea of relational psychology is you are using your relationship as an example of how they function out of the real world, right? Shouldn't you be a little afraid to tell your therapist something, but you learn to overcome that fear? 

Because they're a real person, right? And you know, if you never have to be vulnerable, because it's like, okay, even if the robot looks like a person, you still know it's not a person. Um, like I still think it just won't have that same healing effect because you're going to still go on a first date with a real person so that that therapist is still going to model human interaction a lot better. 

Now, would we want it to seem like a person, I actually think it's better to be divided in terms of therapy, so that you know it's like, oh no, this is interactive self help, and this is the therapist, and it actually creates a natural divide, um, that you kind of selectively choose yourself. That would be my thought at least. 

[00:10:52] Marco Ciappelli: It's really interesting. I think people can go, both ways, meaning, well, but maybe the human knows what it means to eat, but the robot doesn't. Yeah. What do you know about food, Mr.  

[00:11:04] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Well, the robot's not going to know what it's like to be, feel guilty after eating. Right. Right. They might know the right, they, you could program, you know, an empathetic response into it, but you will know deep down that they are not experiencing the empathy. 

They're not going in their own mind. Yes, I've done that too. And it feels really horrible and can pull from their own example of the time they've done that and felt horrible  

[00:11:27] Marco Ciappelli: that they've done it. Right. Right. Right. Very interesting. All right. Let's, let's dig a little bit. More into what could be the problem. 

So, of course, that's your practice. That's what you do. Um, I think we know just by looking at Advertising, documentaries, or just reading the news that, you know, nutrition is, is a big issue for a lot of different reasons, either for diet, and you may correct me with that word if you want, or, or even the way we approach it from, a warming and a pollution perspective, I mean, for a lot of things. In your case, what was the trigger that said, maybe, maybe we could leverage technology to do something like this? Is that because personalized? Nutrition advice. What did you see? What was the spark?  

[00:12:20] Dr. Sera Lavelle: So I actually have a very specific moment, um, that I came up with this idea. 

It was, um, I had a male friend who was going through a breakup and, you know, being a male, it's kind of embarrassing to talk about how hurt you are about this breakup, right? It's a lot easier for women to talk about our emotions and how sad we are. And he showed me this app and it was called mend and you could talk to it all day. 

Um, just about your breakup. And he said to me, you know, I really like that. It's not a human because I, I don't have to worry that I'm bothering this thing. And I'm not really ready to talk to real people about this. And it was like that moment after all these years of working with eating disorders, I'm like, this is exactly what people need. 

Um, in between sessions. So, there was that occurrence, and then there was also something I noticed when I went virtual. And it was kind of the same kind of feeling. So, all of a sudden, I'm seeing patients in real life. The next moment, I'm seeing patients on a screen, like we are right now. And, like from one week to the next, my patients were twice as honest with me. 

And I was like, what's going on? And well, I'm less real. Um, it's, I'm still a real person. They know I still have empathy, but it's somehow actually easier to talk to a person through a computer on a screen and be honest, then In like than in person. And I think whenever you're dealing with any kind of mental health issue, where there's like, um, shame and vulnerability and not wanting to tell people whether it's eating or whether it's drugs or like anything you don't feel good about, I think having that interplay between sometimes it's real person. 

Sometimes it's not. And yeah, the adaptability of both is really important.  

[00:14:07] Marco Ciappelli: That's very interesting, because a lot of people actually, I hear, they think the opposite. Where the human one on one, like, give you an example, conference, right? All of a sudden, it's like, you know, you start doing your job, I start doing my job more remotely, which I like, uh, compared with being on conference, interviewing people, and all of that. 

And then, All of a sudden, people are like, well, let's go back to normal. I'm doing hair quotes for people on the podcast. And I think we shouldn't go back to just that. I think that we've learned that we can also do things virtual. We reach more people. It's a more, as you say, constant interaction instead of having to wait, I don't know, a month for the next session and what you do in between or a week. 

I don't know what is that. So there is a good and the bad. It's interesting that you found that people were opening up. A lot more. Um, one of the points that you were, um, pointing out to prepare for this conversation you mentioned something about that society addressed the wrong pain point for nutritional issue and diet. 

I'm going to say the word diet again. Um, what is that? What, what, what, what is, so  

[00:15:24] Dr. Sera Lavelle: I often make a joke. Yeah. That the entire diet industry thinks that the problem is that people don't know enough about nutrition. And yet I've never met anybody that says, Hey, I'm really struggling with my weight. I ate three pieces of cake last night. 

It's because I don't know if that's more calories than a carrot, you know, but that's how the entire industry approaches is it as if we just don't know, right? And then they're like, try this diet, try that diet, try that diet. Whereas I would say, of course I work with eating disorders. So I deal with people on more extreme, but what I'm finding more and more that most people who struggle with weight. 

It's, um, it's more of a scale of eating disorder thinking than that they're categorical differences, right? It's, it's this, I'm going to be good. I'm going to be good. I'm going to be good. And then something happens, they feel emotional, they go off track and they eat something. It has nothing to do with whether or not they're counting calories. 

It has nothing to do. With whether, whether or not they have a lot of good health information. I mean, almost everybody I know struggling with weight, whether it's disordered or just somebody who's like, Hey, I'm looking to lose these 10 pounds and I can't do it. They say the same thing. They say, I know exactly what I should be doing. 

I know exactly what works. I know exactly how to count calories. I know exactly how to do this, but. Something happens and I just go off track. So, from my perspective, it's a focus on how do we keep people on track, not trying to show them what the track is. Does that make any sense?  

[00:17:04] Marco Ciappelli: It does. I mean, my background is actually marketing advertising, so I can totally picture the way that also the industry, um, it's been picturing this. 

It's all about the aesthetic of it. Oh, you should be on a diet because you're so you can, you can be a beach body. For the summer. No, you should be because it's about your health. I mean, yeah, that would be the point you feel better It's okay. You're a little bit overweight. That's not a problem. But you'll feel better. 

So There is this idea that yeah, take this pill. It's a easy button in technology, right? I think this Medication and you're gonna be okay but The real issue. I think it's, and, and that's where I can see technology coming in and ai, it's, everybody's gonna have different needs. So that personalization of, you know, your exercising routine, there is not a how, how do you know how long should I run to burn my own calorie? 

Yeah. I mean, I can only know it if I. If I monitor that, if I do it, if I try, cause I, I may be completely different from someone else. So I can totally see that and, and I'm wondering how AI comes into place in, in this and maybe the wearables too. I'm just thinking as a technologist in a way.  

[00:18:27] Dr. Sera Lavelle: So the way that we approach it isn't through a lot of tracking. 

Um, it is through generative AI, but it's about continually learning about your own patterns, right? So. For instance, um, you know, our app is built on generative AI, however it attaches to a vector database. Now what I mean by that is every blog I've ever written, every podcast I've ever done is programmed into it. 

So our AI has learned to respond like me, not like a generic AI. So having something with you at all times. That says, Hey, I really feel like eating this cake right now. Um, what should I do? And it says, okay, well, let's take a moment. Are you actually hungry? Do you want to do a meditation? Hey, if you're actually hungry, do you want to eat this? 

Or do you want to eat something else? Um, or is something going on today? Did you just have a bad day? Did you get in a fight with your spouse? Um, something that's kind of talking to you all day and saying, Hey, if you really do want this, please just go ahead and do it. If not, let's try to figure out what's going on. 

And then you're learning about your patterns. Wait a minute. Actually, every time I want that piece of cake, I'm always answering that I got in a fight with my boss. I always answered. Um, that I'm feeling bad about myself for some reason, or, you know, um, AI could on the fly give you different techniques in that moment. 

So it says, okay, well, we're, I'm just going to create a mindfulness exercise that you could do right now. Okay. Now, how do you feel after that? And it's constantly talking to you and can even give you reminders. Hey, this is the type of day that you normally, um, find yourself cave, craving, caving into a food craving. 

I just want to check in. How are you feeling right now? And it can learn your own patterns and it's helping you learn your own patterns like continuously throughout the day.  

[00:20:20] Marco Ciappelli: Is that Participation and input that comes from the user as well. I mean, you said this, this represent kind of you, right? So the knowledge base is of the generative AI is, is you. 

[00:20:36] Dr. Sera Lavelle: And then it, it'll change it according to you. It'll continue to personalize based on your own input. So it gradually gets to know you better and better and better. And your own patterns and what works for you and what doesn't. It says, okay, well yesterday that didn't work. Why don't we try this?  

[00:20:53] Marco Ciappelli: Okay. And so how does this put into place, uh, maybe other habit? 

I mean, cause it, cause I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine. Um, and trust I'm, I'm being devil's advocate. No, of course. No, no, I like it. You know, I mean, I, I love technology. I I'm one of those that grew up with analog and then pivoting digital. I love both, on the radio behind me. 

Uh, so I always keep that eye of, uh, feeling of, okay, I trust you, but I'm not a hundred percent sure. So, so my point is, is do you feel like there is that barrier where you're like, okay, but you're still not Sarah. You're still not my psychologist.  

[00:21:44] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Well, it is going to be learning. It doesn't need to be me. 

It needs to be something and something kind of amorphous. That's just teaching you more and more about yourself, right? It's the same way that you could go through your own journey of like self help and reading this book. And then that book and that book. You know, you don't need a therapist necessarily. 

To recommend it, but actually read this one. And then in everyday life, Amazon recommends this other based on that reading. And it's kind of this process of like, um, you know, I don't call mine a diet app or a weight app. Um, this is something that's supposed to systematically retrain your mind to eat better, by learning your hunger and satiety signals by learning your patterns by learning what makes you go off track and even like by learning what. 

What on track means to you? I don't know what on track means to you. For some people being completely vegan is on track to them. Um, some people doing, um, a more kind of high protein low carb diet works for them. But everybody already has a sense of what on track for them means and everybody has a sense of what is not on track. 

Where people falter is not knowing why they get off track and not knowing how to get that back on, right? So I think the trust would come in. If they see themselves either not falling off the horse over and over again, after using it for a while, or they find themselves when they do fall off the horse, they're able to quickly recover in a way that they're thinking around food actually changes. 

There's no longer obsessing about it. There's no longer guilt about it. There's no longer worried about it. Um, it becomes more like, Hey, I'm going to eat when I'm hungry and I'll stop when I'm full. Or I'll eat the way that feels good to me.  

[00:23:23] Marco Ciappelli: So it's, it's a way to know yourself.  

[00:23:28] Dr. Sera Lavelle: It's a way to know yourself. 

I like it. Yeah. This doesn't pretend to be, um, a calorie counting app. This doesn't pretend to be anything different. It's um, I'm really trying to approach it from a way, um, that just completely different than the rest of the weight and loss industry does. Which makes it sound like they know better about what you should eat than you should. 

And I think most people know what they should, what, what makes their body feel good and what makes their mind and soul feel good. They know what on track feels like to them.  

[00:23:59] Marco Ciappelli: So let's, let's go to a wider view again into what, The technology industry is doing right now, and again, on one side, they try to say, yeah, this is the answer for all you need. 

And on the other hand, I feel like that your approach, but also, you know, I always say that, for example, Generative AI, and I joke that it's only human after all, only knows. It comes from a knowledge base of all that we have written, said, and movies, and whatever. So if it has biases and all of that, it's because it's a way at this point for us to know ourself. 

And that's why we talk about ethics so much, philosophy in, in technology and AI. So on a, on a wider perspective what do you see in the future of as human interaction with technology. Do you think it's going to give us more, uh, again, knowledge of ourself and not just about nutrition? 

I want to, I want to pick your brain in, in general and education.  

[00:25:05] Dr. Sera Lavelle: I think it will. I mean, I just think it's going to be a lot more ongoing learning and it's going to be, you know, you think about how We went from, as a society, to all having Encyclopædia Britannica. And if we wanted to know something, we had to, like, okay, well, is this question an A question? 

Or is this, like, uh, an F? What book do I pull out? And, you know, and we relied a lot more on hearsay. Um, now, that being said, I mean, I know the internet's, you know, quite a bit of hearsay as well, but we have things more, you know, than the internet came out. And people were afraid of the internet, of course, as well. 

You know, people are so interconnected, and who knows if the internet was a good thing or a bad thing, um, connecting us more, I mean, but I think it's going to be the next thing. I think the next generation will just see it as a little bit more of an extension of themselves. Right now, we're afraid of generative AI, and it's considered plagiarism to use it. 

Um, calculators also used to be considered cheating, right? And now we teach calculators in school. You still need to learn the basics, but, um, I don't see it being a long time from now where teaching people to use AI tools will just be part of the process. 

[00:26:22] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And I think as you can do personalized consultant for a lot of things, you can also do a lot of personalized education. I mean, I can see that, for example, in the education industry to be, you know, if. Just because you are in first grade, it doesn't mean you are equal to everyone in first grade. 

Everybody has different learning approach and capabilities. And so if you can give that, piece of AI to say, all right, let's be a tutor in a way and catch up on the things that you really, you as a person need.  

[00:27:00] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Now, you must've known that I had twins in first grade, right?  

[00:27:03] Marco Ciappelli: No, I swear, you know, kind of magical like that. 

I have an AI that told me that.  

[00:27:09] Dr. Sera Lavelle: You do actually? They're very, they're very different learners.  

[00:27:13] Marco Ciappelli: Oh yeah, tell me about that.  

[00:27:16] Dr. Sera Lavelle: First grade, um, they're, you know, they have strengths in different subjects and even the way that they learn is so different. Um, I'm not a parent who's, um, anti technology. Um, I'm all for them using the iPad if it's for something like CodeSpark. 

Um, something that's like teaching them how to think in these different ways, but yeah, you'll see, um, I think school really needs to catch up, personally. I mean, we have the same kind of curriculum that we did in the 1950s, um, and we're expecting people to sit there for a long hour, like, and pay attention to one thing, and then change tasks, and... 

Um, people think it's such a bad thing that kids can't sit still. Well, maybe we're just not supposed to. I mean, if you look at other animals, they're not sitting still for now hours on end and just absorbing information. They're kind of hunting and then they're going to another thing and another thing. 

And I do wonder if it's actually, instead of thinking, oh, this is so bad and we have shorter attention spans, um, maybe we have a lot more human capability and maybe we want to think faster. And that school is just too slow for us and that's why we're so bored.  

[00:28:26] Marco Ciappelli: I love that. I was actually listening to, like, in the morning in my routine is to listen to a few, uh, news. 

Maybe, yeah, English. Then I, I listened to the Italian one. My background is in sociology of communication. So I learned that you need different perspective and things. So for me to hear even different languages, it gave me start. My brain going, and I was recently listening about how they're trying to have more lesson outside in, in many school. 

Mm-Hmm. . Because, the feedback for that, and they were talking about the fact that September and October is still warm, which is, you know, kind of nice, but also kind of scary. A little scary. Yeah. Right. But, but they're like, they actually run some, um, some research and some stats that. Kids pay more attention. 

They learn more. They're more excited because they, they are outside. They're not in a room because they move around, but they're also interested and stimulated.  

[00:29:26] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Stimulated. Yeah. Have you heard of the green school? I'm so fascinated by this. They're building.  

[00:29:31] Marco Ciappelli: No, but it sounds so so good. It's  

[00:29:33] Dr. Sera Lavelle: um, yeah, I think there's four of them. 

The fifth is going Tulum, Mexico. And it meet it. It merges nature and technology and teaches people to be global changemakers. I mean, I'm just so fascinated by that concept. You know, and more people are homeschooling, like, uh, you know, I always make the joke homeschooling isn't just for the weirdos anymore, right? 

It's, um, it's because people want more flexibility in where they're living. Um, they want different kind of learning for different people. I mean, that being said, I'm not homeschooling anytime soon, but the, the green school isn't out of the question for us.  

[00:30:07] Marco Ciappelli: Um, I love it. I want to know more about that. 

Actually, if you can share, you know, some links.  

[00:30:12] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Yeah, I'll be happy to send you some links. Um, I'm just in my own personal research, but I've been, I'm watching the videos and. You know, you see the kids, they're excited to learn.  

[00:30:25] Marco Ciappelli: See, isn't it all connected anyway? Like we, we jumped from nutrition to green to education, way of learning. We're all in a synergy of things together. 

And even this conversation, you know, if you have a different approach to understanding how the world works and environment, and then maybe you have different approach on the way you interact with the nutrition as well. I mean, I, years ago, we were talking about kids grown up in a city that they don't even know. 

Where the X come from, like where the milk come from. So that's scary. You want to talk scary? It's not AI. That's scary.  

[00:31:04] Dr. Sera Lavelle: That is scary. Yeah, exactly. And I love the idea of the green school. I think because it's nature and technology and people somehow think those have to be so opposite of each other. 

Um, and I don't think they really need to be. I mean, like there, you know, there's a lot of bad things we've done with technology, um, to the environment, but there are also ways, um, that technologies very much help farmers. And helped, um, growing conditions and help people. I think it's a, yeah, it's all about like using what things are adaptive, right? 

What are the adaptive aspects of it? And which are the maladaptive? And make sure you don't conflate the two.  

[00:31:45] Marco Ciappelli: Yep. Technology is a, is a tool. And I think that's the essence and the core of my podcast. And as we wrap, it's a reminder that if people listen and then... They have more questions, uh, than answers in their head because of our conversation. 

I think we did a good job. Make people think, look at things from a different perspective. And, uh, yeah, technology, it's often taken as a That's the enemy for a lot of things from the news because, you know, bad news sell a newspaper. But there is so much that it's doing. And I think especially in health care, especially in, you know, even mental health. 

I mean, the thing that we can do now, it's, it's, it's incredible. So I want to thank you for your perspective for presenting what you're doing. And, uh, and this. Kind of different approach. I think it's it's a little less alarming, I guess, to deal with your, uh, with your phone or with whatever you're interacting with, to maybe have some, uh, some help every, every moment and have a way to grow your knowledge and maybe help you to resolve some of your, um, impasse in, uh, in life. 

Of course, there is not easy button, isn't it? There's a lot of work involved.  

[00:33:07] Dr. Sera Lavelle: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Um, it's always interesting hearing different people's perspectives as well. And I'm just happy to be part of the, uh, narrative and I guess we'll, uh, only time will tell.  

[00:33:19] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, absolutely. I want to thank you for this and, uh, I'm going to invite everybody to subscribe, sign up and get in touch with, uh, with Dr. 

Sarah, on our social media and, uh, if you're interested in what she does and have questions. You can reach out directly to her. So thank you very much, everybody. Stay tuned. Bye bye, Sarah. Thank you.